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FW Strategies Part 1 (Lecture by Twist)

:)
-- Message sent --
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From Twist: ok. weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. <pulls mike away>
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From Gmcbride: hehehe
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Rld just joined this channel!
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From Twist: ahem. Awright folks, tonight we're going to look at the most potent
plane in AW.
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From Twist: There are better dogfighters, there are better runners, but nothing
is more savagely
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From Twist: lethal than the FW. It is _the_ plane to fly.
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From Twist: Used properly it's my opinion the FW is unparalleled at bagging
dweebs or even
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From Twist: the occasional non dweeb (rare as they are). And, it's a great
vulcher. heh.
***
From Twist: The first order of business with the FW as with any plane in AW is
to know
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From Twist: it's oustanding performance characteristics so that you can
maximize those to
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From Twist: your advantage when engaging.
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From Twist: The FW's can be summarized as guns, speed, maneuverability (NOT
necessarily turning)
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From Twist: guns, toughness, and of course guns.
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From Twist: did I mention guns?
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From Twist: Ok. The weaknesses are as follows:
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From Twist: bad sustained turn rate. Poor climb rate. That's about it.
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From Twist: Now, the essential problem that most people run into in the FW is
that they
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From Twist: are completely hooked on the idea of sustained turn being the
primary performance
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From Twist: consideration for a fighter. In real life this was definitely not
the case, but
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From Twist: in AW it can be perceived that way. Too many people consider
"fight" to mean
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Tsheehy just exited the teleconference.
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From Twist: exclusively "dogfight". Just ain't so, although that's what a lot
of people do in the arena.
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From Twist: The Fw has the kind kind of _maneuverability_ required to win
"fights", but it
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From Twist: doesn't have the ability to turn like a bumblebee forever, like the
Spit or zeke.
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From Twist: So if you are primarily what I call a "lift vector" pilot - that
is, you only
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From Twist: know how to put your lift vector on the opponent and pull, you'll
have lots of
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From Twist: problems.
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Transmaniakon just switched to this channel!
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From Twist: There's a few hard and fast rules that will help you keep out of
trouble when
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From Twist: you're learning the FW, and it's probably worth while to go over
them first
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From Twist: before anything else so they stick out in your mind.
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From Twist: First, keep in mind the FW is not a good low-alt fighter for
beginners.
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From Twist: So take off from a clear field with time to climb, pick a rear
field if you
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From Twist: really want to be safe. Because of this you should take a fair
amount of fuel,
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From Twist: around 40-50% (it will last you a looong time in the FW).
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From Twist: Don't dither over taking less fuel to make you maneuver/climb
better, because
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From Twist: if you depend on that marginal an edge you're not using the plane
right anyway.
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From Twist: While you are learning consider your engagement area to be above 8K
or so.
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From Twist: This is your safety net to get away if you get in trouble - a FW
with 8K has
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From Twist: plenty of alt to use it's excellent evasive ability to leave a
fight.
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From Twist: Much lower than that and you'll get toasted by a Spit or somesuch.
From Twist: Now, ideally you will want to engage lower opponents to begin with
until you
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From Twist: get used to maneuvers for close in combat. So 8K is your min, and
you should
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From Twist: think about having a 2-3K cushion over the highest enema as well.
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From Twist: There is no reason to go to nosebleed alt (unless your enemy are
there already) as
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From Twist: too MUCH alt will probably be more trouble than it's worth.
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From Twist: Another basic engagement philosophy is to keep your speed HIGH at
all times
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From Twist: unless you have a clear alt advantage over your enemy. High speeds
are
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From Twist: 250kts+. If you are making BnZ passes (we'll get into this later)
make it 300kts.
From Twist: I'll summarize because they're important when you're learning: 8K
minimum,
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From Twist: start with 2-3K at least on highest opponent, keep speed >250kts
all times.
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From Twist: Those basic rules apply for any boom and zoom type of operation
anyway, but
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From Twist: they're particularly vital to the FW becuase it if you're not very
familiar
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From Twist: with it it will get you killed fast when you ignore them.
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From Twist: Now, I mentioned before that the Fw is very maneuverable, but at
the same time
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From Twist: I said it doesn't have a good sustained turn rate. This often
confuses people.
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From Twist: The point is the FW does everything great except that one limited
aspect of
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From Twist: maneuverability which is the turn. It has the best roll rate in AW
for instance,
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From Twist: and it keeps that roll rate very well at high speeds. Further, it
doesn't compress
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From Twist: very much and will respond fairly predictably at any speed above
200kts to stick input.
***
From Twist: Both of these are good characteristics both on attack and on
defense, so that's
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From Twist: why you'll hear me say it has "good maneuverability".
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From Twist: Also note that in turn rates I always mention sustained turn rate.
The FW
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From Twist: can actually get a great initial turn radius from speed, a vital
component of
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From Twist: many attack strategies, the only problem is it can't KEEP turning
worth a damn.
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From Twist: This is what seperates an experienced FW pilot from not -
experienced ones know
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From Twist: when and how to use that one shot they get at a good turn, dweebs
don't :-).
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From Twist: Let's look at that a little more in depth for a minute. Say you are
flying
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From Twist: along in a FW and a Spit is right next to you, you're both going
300kts.
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From Twist: If you and the spit both roll 90 degrees and do a horizontal bank,
it seems
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From Twist: reasonable that the Spit would have a much lower turn radius
because it has a
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From Twist: much higher turn rate in degrees/sec.
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From Twist: But in point of fact the FW and Spit will have very close
characteristics for
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From Twist: the first loop or so, because the Spit keeps it's energy so well it
keeps going
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From Twist: much faster than the FW.
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From Twist: Since spit is going much faster, it covers more distance per sec
than the FW,
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From Twist: making it's turn radius wider, and it then uses it's superior turn
rate to make up for that.
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From Twist: In point of fact it's often very difficult for a Spit pilot to
match a FW
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From Twist: in an initial turn because the Spit will have to chop throttle hard
to get
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From Twist: anywhere need the speed bleed of the FW. So, if you're in the FW
you can
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From Twist: actually use your major disadvantage (bleeding speed) to your
advantage at times.
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From Twist: As a rule of thumb in the arena, if you decide to try to apply this
and you
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From Twist: haven't gained significant angles on the opponent by the time
you're down to
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From Twist: 200kts, you've probably blown it and you need to get out of dodge
quickly.
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From Twist: <that's where your 8K cushion comes in for instance>
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From Twist: any questions on any of this so far?
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From Gmcbride: neg
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From Twist: Is that a snore I hear?
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From Robinhood: No questions
> hehehe
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From Gmcbride: (wake up Rash!)
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From Rld: go ahead twist
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From Transmaniakon: <cough> :)
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From Twist: somebody give Rash another beer.
> Rash not here. <G>
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From Twist: anyway, a couple of you are probably wondering how everybody seems
to
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From Twist: be getting kils in low and slow FWs if I'm correct with most of the
above stuff.
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From Twist: Basically, most of them cheat. Not in the sense of hacking a FE or
anything,
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From Twist: but they take advantage of inadequacies in the AW spin model to
escape some
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From Twist: of the limitations of the FW as a plane. The long and short of it
is that if
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From Twist: you practice long enough, you can become "skilled" at deliberately
causing a
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From Twist: spin in a FW and recovering with fair amount of predictability.
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From Twist: As in, you can recover with a guns solution on your opponent.
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From Twist: Since a plane in a spin is nearly impossible to hit given our
gunnery model
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From Twist: (hell, planes flying straight and level are nearly impossible to
hit most of
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From Transmaniakon: !
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From Twist: the time) this can be very effective. But it's not realistic, nor
is it based
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From Twist: on any solid knowledge of ACM. Ga Trans.
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From Transmaniakon: just call me TK :) Can u control a spin that well?
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From Twist: Yes. In certain planes I can drop into a spin and recover exactly
on the
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From Twist: opponents tail. Yak is the worst, FW, 109, Spit all exhibit the
characteristic.
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From Transmaniakon: Is there talk of fix for spins in 1.5?
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From Twist: Actually it's very likely this will be fixed in a sense with 1.18
(or whatever
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From Twist: the next release becomes).
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From Twist: Kesmai isn't particularly happy with unrealistic options being
given to the player
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From Twist: so they're likely to implement tougher spin recover in the next
release.
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From Transmaniakon: Good... spinning on purpose seems pretty cheesy
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From Twist: That hasn't been set in stone tho, so don't try to hold them to it.
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From Twist: Spinning is valid if you are playing the game instead of the
simulation.
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From Twist: It is absolutely unnecessary to spin the FW to get lots of kills in
it.
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From Twist: It's a sore subject with a lot of players, and not everybody holds
my view.
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From Twist: I wanted to bring it up merely to say that I'm not going to teach
you how to
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From Twist: do it :-O.
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From Gmcbride: hehehehe
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From Shadownyc: hehe
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From Twist: Also note that when we do get a real force model "spinfighters"
will be
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From Twist: deadfighters in very short order.
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From Twist: the only other thing I'll mention about spins is how to recover
from them
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From Twist: since they are a reality in the FW as with any other plane.
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From Twist: The standard solution applies: apply rudder opposite the direction
of the
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From Twist: spin, neutral stick at first and try a little jerks opposite the
spin direction
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From Twist: if you have trouble with the rudder. The latter isn't realistic at
all btw
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From Twist: but it works, sigh.
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From Twist: The FW had unusual spin characteristics which are sort of modelled
in AW:
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From Twist: it tends to flip over on it's back when it spins, which can be sort
of
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From Twist: annoying. But it doesn't effect recovery.
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From Twist: Interesting to note btw that the rudder action should be REVERSED
when you
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From Twist: are upside down (you should rudder TOWARDS the spin) but AW messes
it up :-)
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From Rld: do you need to chop throttle?
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From Twist: Not particularly, although you should unflap of course.
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From Twist: If you leave your flaps down and you take too long to recover, you
can get
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From Twist: severly hosed when you snap out, because you'll be going too fast
and
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From Twist: immediately fall into compression.
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From Twist: Hey shebop can we take 2 min break? potential dog issue here.
> sure thing.
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From Gmcbride: hehehehehe
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From Twist: cc brb
> seventh inning stretch...
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From Gmcbride: brb too
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Gmcbride just exited the teleconference.
> should have the bud light guy doing a commercial or something...:)
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From Shadownyc: hehe
From Twist: Ok they just mad because they can't kill neighbors cat.
> oh, why not? <BG>
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From Shadownyc: the Cat's winning tis all ;)
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From Twist: Don't want the blood on my driveway...ill wait until it crosses
street.
> hehehe
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Gmcbride just joined this channel!
> okay...where wuz we...
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From Twist: Bout to get to keeling people.

From Twist: Ok, you've got the basic rules of engagement, now what do you do.
Well, the
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Porn just switched to this channel!
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From Twist: best thing when you're learning is to find people that are already
fighting
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From Twist: to kill as they'll be easy targets :-). Until you're very
comfortable with
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From Twist: evading close-ins I don't recommend just going out and finding 1v1
situations.
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From Twist: Best possible scenario is to find a bunch of stallfighters from
opposite
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From Twist: countries all in one dweeby little cloud.
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From Twist: Mmmmmmmm, yummmy.
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From Gmcbride: hehehehe
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From Twist: Now a lot of people when they're learning FW or energy don't pick
very good
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From Twist: approaches to a fight. In the situation above you'll get tempted
sometimes to
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From Twist: fly over the cloud, pick a target, and dive in. This is probably
the most
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From Twist: difficult way to get a shot, although it's the easiest to
visualize.
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From Twist: What you want to do instead is start a shallow dive (remember, 2-3K
above your
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From Twist: highest enemy to begin with until later) and level out when you are
about
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From Twist: 1K or so away from the fight. You precede through the fight
basically flying
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Hotrail just vanished!
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From Twist: level and pick the target as you approach. After you pass through
(300kts)
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From Twist: either go into a low-G zoom, or roll slightly 10-30 degrees and
zoom.
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From Twist: Ga HR.
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From Shadownyc: he went
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From Twist: oh so he did
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From Twist: ok, a basic trick I learned early on to help when you are doing
this is
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From Twist: to find a set of stallfighters following each other around (not
hard to do).
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From Twist: Now, your eventual target is the guy in the rear position, but what
you do
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From Twist: to help your timing is you follow the guy in the LEAD position of
the
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From Twist: stallfight. Since the guy in the rear is following the one you key
off of,
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From Twist: any manuever your key makes the rear will make as well, but you get
some
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From Twist: extra time to react as maneuvers occur.
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From Twist: Of course if you get the opportunity and the lead guy gives you a
good shot,
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From Gmcbride: ah hah! <light comes on>
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From Twist: just take that. No reason to be picky.
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From Twist: You'll find if you do this that many times it will seem that
fighters just
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From Twist: magically line up in front of you as you approach the furball.
Great fun
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From Twist: when you've got a mobile FP as far as the guns go.
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From Gmcbride: hehehhe
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From Twist: If you keep a shallow dive angle to begin with and don't get harsh
on the
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From Porn: !I would imagine you would have to watch your speed closely around
the stallfight eh?
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From Twist: stick as you approach from 1K out, you should have a full "black
out reserve"
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From Twist: when you get to the furball. Yes Porn, you should be going 300kts
or so in
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From Twist: the approach I describe.
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From Twist: A black out reserve means that you can pull momentarily high Gs,
and you
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From Twist: should wait to use this until you are right on top of the fight, as
a last
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From Twist: second measure to get a slightly better angle on the victim.
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From Twist: If you're going 300kts and you pull to black out once, you should
still have
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From Twist: plenty of speed to exit the furball and re-assess as you climb out.
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From Twist: Don't just sit there and ham the stick around. If you blow the
pass, no big
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From Twist: deal, just climb out and reset for a new one.
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From Transmaniakon: !
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From Twist: GA TK.
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From Transmaniakon: hey twist I gotta run...
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From Transmaniakon: are u gonna have another class on fw?
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From Twist: there's one scheduled, I'll be here but don't know how many others
will.
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From Twist: it's on friday.
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From Transmaniakon: ok cool I will cya then thanks... bye
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From Twist: ok.
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Transmaniakon just exited the teleconference.
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From Twist: hey how long is this supposed to go anyway ? heh.
> we've been going till eleven, but 10:30-11 ok
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From Shadownyc: Till u teach Robinhood to kill drum :)
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From Twist: ok.
***
From Robinhood: <g> been there done that
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From Shadownyc: hehe
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From Gmcbride: hehehehe, better learn to spin then :)
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From Robinhood: cc
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From Twist: awright, so we've covered what your engagement parameters should
be, what
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From Twist: your approach is, now we'll look at what happens after pass.
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From Twist: As I mentioned you should use a low-G extension as you leave the
furball,
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From Twist: probably no more than 4Gs, settle down to a 30-45 degree climb max.
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From Twist: As you do that you should be cycling ALL views. Since you've been
busy
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From Twist: trying to pick targets and firing on your pass, you've been focused
elsewhere
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From Twist: and the situation may have changed since you started the attack.
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From Twist: The absolute WORST thing you can do is to get all fixated on the
guy you
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From Twist: just made a pass at. he's behind you and (likely) busy, he's not a
threat.
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From Twist: So, look around. If you see somebody higher than you, you have to
reassign
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From Twist: him as the primary threat. There are two things you do with a
primary threat:
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From Twist: kill it or run away from it. Your choice, but the point is if
somebody has
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From Twist: gotten higher than you the last pass is completely meaningless now.
It's now
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From Twist: a fight between you and the highest threat.
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From Twist: If nobody is as high as you are, look for anybody that has a very
high
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From Twist: closure rate to you. If they do, try to figure out what their
approach
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From Twist: angle is. If they're catching up to you at a pursuit angle, then
THEY
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From Twist: are your highest threat. Any closure from a rear angle is
dangerous, fast
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From Twist: closure is trouble.
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From Twist: If neither of these conditions exist, then you're ok. Then and only
then
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From Twist: do you turn your attention back to the furball and your target,
assuming
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From Twist: he's not already dead from your first pass. You can just set up
again on him
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From Twist: using the same method and keep working it until you get him.
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From Twist: In terms of threat assessment the biggest problem new people have
is dealing
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From Twist: with dots that are out of con. You'll just have to get used to
trying to
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From Twist: estimate based on their movement relative to you. If you don't
trust your
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From Twist: ability to do this than follow a simple "higher is danger" rule and
extend
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From Twist: opposite direction from any dot co-alt or higher.
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From Twist: Ok, last topic will cover in the beginners section here is basic
evasives.
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From Twist: This is for when something goes wrong. You get jumped by a Spit you
didn't
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From Twist: see, you dive in from directly above the furball (baaad FW pilot!
bad!) and
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From Twist: fall below the altitude of the fight, etc.
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From Twist: Basically if you've kept your 8K cushion then you will find it very
easy
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From Twist: to avoid most stallfighters with practice. P51s and other FWs are
your
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From Twist: biggest enemy, and if you let more than one of them jump you,
you're in big
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From Twist: trouble (and you didn't pay attention during the threat assement
part of the
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From Twist: lecture).
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From Gmcbride: hehehhehe
> :)
> ***
From Twist: You'll have to trust me on this one: a FW pilot who is comfortable
with
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From Twist: evasives (ie, he's practiced them) has very little to fear from a
single
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From Twist: Spitfire for example. Regardless of the Spitfires altitude.
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From Twist: In fact a FW can run from just about anything except another FW.
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From Twist: The central reason for this is your incredible turn rate. Use it.
Use it
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From Shadownyc: roll rate
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From Twist: a lot, at high speeds, several times, and any spitfire will be left
in
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From Twist: the dust (sorry, roll rate is correct)
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From Twist: You can try this off line - get most planes up to 300kts or so and
they
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From Twist: turn into absolute much. They get slow rolls, and even very small
sitck
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From Twist: er stick deflections cause blackouts.
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From Twist: Not so with the FW. it's just getting rolling at 300 and can easily
maneuver
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From Twist: at speeds of up to 450kts.
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From Twist: So, let's say you're jumped by a Spitfire with alt (prolly worst
case scenario
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From Twist: for opposing planes, in stallfighters).
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From Twist: Immediately you should get your nose pointed down unless you are
already
> ***
From Twist: going 300kts or so. Your target velocity is going to be around 300.
Don't
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From Twist: waste time diving to get above 300 because you'll use alt that you
shouldn't
> ***
From Twist: have to.
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From Twist: Ok, if the spit is diving from well above a real basic trick is to
fly
> ***
From Twist: straight and level, giving him a nice even target, and watch his
approach.
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From Twist: he'll likely get caught up in an "easy kill" and dive hard to catch
up with
> ***
From Twist: you. Wait until he is about 2000-1600 yards, roll on your back, and
pull
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From Twist: opposite his approach direction to start with.
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From Twist: If he's going real fast just this one maneuver will confound him,
because
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From Twist: he a) can't roll like you can and b) going that speed can't turn at
all
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From Twist: until he dumps a bunch of speed.
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From Twist: If you saw him going a pretty steady speed on approach, he's
probably smart
> ***
From Twist: and has chopped throttle as he comes in. This is dangerous and
implies a s
> ***
From Twist: stallfighter who actually knows what he's doing.
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From Twist: If you can recognize this happening, then start a dive as he
approaches
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From Twist: you. This will force him to speed up to catch up with you and get
him up
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From Twist: to the speeds at which you can easily evade him. It's sort of a
paradox in
> ***
From Twist: that the easiest way to avoid a stallfighter is to get him going
FAST (the
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From Twist: trick is you get him going fast the wrong direction).
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From Twist: Ok, let's say you've done the above and you're doing about 300 with
a spit
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From Twist: behind you and closing (presumably slowly).
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From Twist: Again you should roll on your back to start, and start a split-S or
something
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From Twist: close to it in terms of angles. The key is to be nose down so
you're
> ***
From Twist: accumulating speed the entire time to fight your bleed tendacies.
Remember
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From Twist: that the Spit will have to be all over his throttle control to
match your
> ***
From Twist: bleed characteristics, giving him one more thing to worry about
than you have.
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From Twist: After you start a split-s (or angle dive), pull about 1/3-1/2 into
it at
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From Twist: a steady 4-5Gs, then do about a quarter roll in any direction and
continute
> ***
From Twist: er continue to pull about 4-5gs. If you're going 300 a pursuing
stallfighter
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From Twist: will have a VERY hard time matching this, because they can't roll
well at high
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From Twist: speeds.
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From Twist: you may have to repeat with a few rolls, but keep in mind what your
eventual
> ***
From Twist: egress direction should be - you SHOULD know that before you start
the
> ***
From Twist: evasives, in fact you should have it figured before you even engage
anybody,
> ***
From Twist: just in case.
> ***
From Twist: As you go through your rolls and 4-5G pulls time them so you end up
on your
> ***
From Twist: egress angle. If you pull 2-3 rolls and keep your speed =>300kts,
it will
> ***
From Twist: be a very rare stallfighter than can follow you through to your
egress direction.
> ***
From Twist: Once you are level at 300kts and the Spit is behind you >1600kts
with no
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From Twist: closure or alt, you are home free. No stallfighter can catch the
190 in
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From Twist: level flight, high speed.
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From Twist: <They will try though, which is pretty amusing>
> ***
From Twist: The procedure is largely the same with other FWs or 51s, but you
have to
> ***
From Twist: execute that much better because these planes are better suited to
the high
> ***
From Twist: speed maneuvers you're performing. Practice offline by starting at
10K, going
> ***
From Twist: any random direction, and pick an egress direction. use the above
maneuvers
> ***
From Twist: but try to pull as close to an absolute 6Gs as you go through the
roll/pulls
> ***
From Twist: as you can, and see how consistently you can do this without
blacking out and
> ***
From Twist: still ending up on the egress route.
> ***
From Twist: Them's the basics of how to use it, how to attack, and how to
evade.
> ***
From Twist: I'll talk about fancy stuff like hammerheads and flaps on Friday.
heh.
> Okay folks, we'll wrap it here - does anyone have any questions before we do...

> And I have an announcement to make before y'all split. <G>
***
From Robinhood: Nope

From Gmcbride: hehhehe wass just getting ready to ask about flaps :)
> ***
From Robinhood: Great class Twist, thanks.
> ***
From Porn: Excellent twist
> ***
From Rld: tnx twist
> Just to let you all know...due to Saturday's warnight...
***
From Shadownyc: good stuff <in my Carson impression>

> Robert Shaw has graciously allowed us to postpone his conference...
***
From Twist: glad folks liked it. We need more good FW fliers. A good plane for
Hate.
> ***
From Gmcbride: hehehe rgr

> so the Shaw conference will be held Tuesday night at 9pm instead of this Saturday.

> ***
From Robinhood: cc Shebop
> That way, we can all go to both. <G>
***
From Shadownyc: cool

> ***
From Porn: rgr that
> ***
From Twist: Shaw is always a great speaker (typer) so you should definitely
make that.
> Yes, he's done conferences for me before, and they are great

> Thanks, Twist - excellent class.

> Tomorrow night continues with deadduck and energy management...Friday night is the second half of this class...
***
From Rld: tnx Shepbop, didn't mean to make trouble

> You didn't Nor, what makes you think you did? <G>

> Except, you *did* call me Shepbop. :)

> ***
From Gmcbride: geez, you all wwould have these things when I working 4-midnite
> ***
From Gmcbride: :)
> Aww...sorry...:(
***
From Rld: i whined on the bb

> ***
From Twist: Isn't that what BBs are for?
> I don't mind whining...not much, anyway. <G>
***
From Twist: That and making fun of dweebs.

> hehehehe

> That what I am there for to listen to the whining
***
From Gmcbride: hehehehe no prob, took vacation for thiss :)
> ***
From Robinhood: There are always the logs of the classes

> ***
From Gmcbride: hehehehehe
> ***
From Shadownyc: hehehe
> ***
From Gmcbride: rgr RH, more fun being here tho :)
> absoltely. :)

> absolutely even
***
From Robinhood: cc couldn't agree more.

> ***
From Gmcbride: hehehehe
> ***
From Porn: There's logs of these classes
> yes, in the help and training database

> Twist, I won;t be here Friday, merchant will moderate for you and keep the log
***
From Gmcbride: thxsss Twissst, gave me some good ideass :)
> ***
From Sherlock: dloading using telnet is hard:)
> ***
From Porn: Excellent This is the first I stumbled upon
> -- Message sent --
> ***
From Porn: Lovinging it
> Sherlock, can you use rlogin?
***
From Twist: ok I'll try not to be too hard on him.

> hehehehe

> he can take it

> Porn, that's why you gotta read the BB - keep on top of these things <G>
***
From Sherlock: I have a site where I can use rlogin but that didn't seem to
work either

> rlogin should work

> twist, isn;t there a switch he's got to use for rlogin? <major brain flush here>
***
From Sherlock: I get loads of characters like }-4
> ***
From Porn: Roger that
> ***
From Rld: At work i have to use telnet to get through firewall

> ***
From Robinhood: See ya'll Friday
> cya Robin
***
From Twist: -8 for binary?

> yeah that be the one
***
Robinhood just exited the teleconference.
> ***
From Shadownyc: cya robin
Gmcbride just exited the teleconference.
>
END LOG

FW Strategies 2: (Lecture by Twist cont)